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April 18, 2022

#03 Supercharging your self-exploration though Zen Meditation, Mushrooms, & Fasting | Takamichi Okubo

#03 Supercharging your self-exploration though Zen Meditation, Mushrooms, & Fasting | Takamichi Okubo

How would you live your life knowing that you are connected to higher consciousness and that everything around you was an extension of you?

Summary

Takamichi Okubo is my guest this week. He is an education consultant who is reinventing himself as a therapist and an online solopreneur.

In this episode, Taka shares his experiences with zen meditation, psychedelic mushrooms, and multi-day fasting.

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction

(01:20) Ars PoeTaka and everyday miracles

(02:44) Experiencing Zen Meditation in Japan

(05:10) Why do I meditate?

(07:04) What prompted Taka to do Psychedelic Mushrooms in Jamaica

(08:11) Altered states and Brain surgery

(10:53) Taka’s 1st psilocybin experience: Having Sex with the world

(12:07) Internalized Oppression and overcoming unconscious biases

(15:16) Integration and Taka’s 2ndpsilocybin experience: Ego Death

(18:58) Love for reality as it is

(22:01) Detachment from trauma and overcoming victim mindset

(22:41) Taka’s 3rd psilocybin experience: Speaking with God

(26:29) Experiences from multi-day fasts

(31:12) An everyday miracle to practice in your life.

Memorable Quotes

“It's like having your own therapist in your own mind”

“Buddha is not too bad. Buddha’s Alright”

“In the first session, I had sex with a world, in the second, I died, and then in the third, I spoke with the universe, or God, or whatever the source of all this is”

“We are human beings, not human doings”

People mentioned

Michael Polan

SN Goenka

Resources

Follow Takamich on Twitter: https://twitter.com/takaokubo

Free Vipassana retreat: https://dhamma.org

Previous episodes: https://healwithsushil.com/episodes

Transcript

Sushil: I am thrilled to welcome our guest this week. Like me. He is also passionate about meditation specifically Zen meditation. And he's also a fellow podcaster who is launching his brand new podcast on everyday miracles called our and he recently quit his job. And he's trying to establish himself as an online creator.

Please welcome my guest this week, tock.

Takamichi: Hey, Sue shell. Thanks for having me.

Sushil: Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm very excited to have you on. And yeah, let's jump in. So how, yeah, tell me more about ours Pataka and everyday miracles team of your podcast.

Takamichi: Oh, right? Yeah. So I'm just starting this out. But the idea is instead of interviewing people, who've done extraordinary things and made some great successes. I wanted to interview. Average people on Twitter and others who have improved their lives through like small changes and like things that people can relate to.

And yeah, I called them like small miracles with everyday miracles and yeah, I wanted to just meet like a ton of new people and pick their brains about how they've improved their lives have they've lived happier lives and so forth. So yeah, Tsusho, you'll be definitely invited.

Sushil: Oh, I'm looking forward to it. And I love that team because everyone starts small. Even my meditation practice started very small. It was like five minutes a day. And then 10 minutes. I will do a guided meditation and it has been immensely beneficial. I started in 2018 with a very small practice, and now it's more almost like an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening.

Takamichi: That's pretty intense. Yeah, that's great. Yeah.

Sushil: yeah,

Takamichi: Yeah. I began 30 minutes a day or something, or 20 to 30 minutes a day. And then I built up to I did like hours but three, three hours these days.

Sushil: Oh, wow. That is very interesting. And you also recently got back from a Zen meditation retreat, right? Tell me more about.

Takamichi: Oh yeah. So this I had to find the right teacher. I used to be into Vipassana. For about two years, I did it really intensively and I even went to the UK to do like a 20 day course.

Sushil: Oh, wow.

Takamichi: yeah, for reasons for many reasons I wanted to find something else after that retreat.

And it took me some time to find the right teacher. And I did this. This is a, there's a Roshi. Roshi means like a master or old master in Japanese. And who's reached Satori. Satori is like a Zen term for enlightenment. And so I wanted to find a. Study meditation under the guidance of someone who has reached the final goal finished the training, so to speak.

 He does meditation retreats in in the mountains, deep in the mountains of Shiga prefecture in Japan. That's like right outside of Kyoto. So that's the Western Japan and I live in Tokyo. So I had to go to. She got prefecture by bullet train. And then I said it was like a long trip. So it was a seven day meditation retreat, a silent meditation retreat.

And yeah, it was for the first six days it was miserable. It was really cold. It was snowy. It was just like cloudy and it's just nasty weather. And this is it's done in like a. Super traditional, house with thatched, roofing, wooden, everything, walls, floors. It was a super cold.

And yes, first six days were miserable. Physically and mentally, and I was like, why am I meditating? I couldn't even focus because I think I have a case of ADHD. And I just can't focus on my breathing. Breathing is the main thing that you focus on in Zen meditation. And yeah, I was like, my, my body was in pain. Like it was just cold and I couldn't focus. It was in fun. I'm like, why am I doing this for the first six days of the seven day retreat? So it was really hard. But then the last set of the sixth day, like I just, my focus just increased or something for some reason.

And then I could just feel, I wish I could stay with my breathing for the entire duration and even sat for like extra hour. You're allowed to sit however long you want at night. Some people just sit through the night these are crazy experienced people. They don't sleep at all.

Like just, they sit through the night. It is, it's pretty crazy, but. Yeah. And then the next day I had I was able to focus again. So that was really good, but I, the question of why I meditate really stay with me because I'm like, yeah, why do I do it? So did that ever happen to you?

Sushi?

Sushil: Yeah, it happens a lot. And I can attest to it. Like I have done one Vipassana retreat myself and. I went with very delusional expectations. When I went there, like I would say that I went there when I was still going through a strong bout of depression and I thought this would fix me because, that's the deal with depression is that when you're in the heart of it, you're looking for that silver bullet or this would fix me or like some Sharman would fix me or some podcast or something would fix me.

Ultimately, I think the core of the problem was that I'm trying to alter everyday reality and, reality as it is, seem to be very bland and. That was the core of the problem is like constantly trying to do small adjustments or, like we should alter this a little bit or do something better. and that just became like a habit.

And then I realized that while I was meditating, meditation did actually solve any of my problems, but it actually showed me what the problems are.

Takamichi: Very

Sushil: It's very, it's like the starting point and not really the end point is how I felt. And

Takamichi: Yeah.

Sushil: And that's the way you can solve the problems. And the truth is like the person who will liberate you or see you to a part which is free from ailments, mental health issues and stuff is probably you.

And I think meditation is a great tool.

Takamichi: Yes. When I went to Jamaica for psychedelic assisted retreat with magic mushrooms they told me again, and again, you might not get what you want, but you will get what you need.

Sushil: Oh, we have to completely expand on that. So what prompted you to go to a psychedelic mushroom retreat in Jamaica?

Takamichi: So I read Michael Pollan's excellent book. How to change your mind. and then I was just blown away he goes into like the research and the history of like psychedelics and basically uncovers that it's more effective than any of the traditional modalities or medication that we use to treat depression, anxiety, and a host of other mental illnesses. And eh, he also. It actually does doses himself and reports on his experience. And I'm like, wow. And then at one point I think he described something like a psychedelic experience that was like, someone had with he says something like It was like getting sucked into God's ass and I'm like, oh my God, I got to go experience that.

So I looked around and then they were offering something that looked legit in Jamaica. And they're called what are they called medic? Oh gosh the name escapes me at the moment, but it's something meditations. But yeah, they're there, they were really good.

Sushil: Yeah, I can certainly attest to how altered states can really help us understand ourselves a lot better. And in coming back to the meditation point, that's the reason I started meditation was that I came to believe that if you are able to express your thoughts and get into this deep state, you're able to be more objective about what is plaguing you and what is it that needs to be fixed right now?

And me personally, I also just got back recently from my very first Ayahuasca retreat. It was a very intense experience. And as you said, it was what I needed to see in that moment. Not what I wanted to see.

It's almost as if these plants are very sentient, like they know exactly what we

need.

Takamichi: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I, one of my, one of the core participants at the psilocybin retreat said like, yeah, it's like having your own therapist in your own mind

So that you can like, start to heal. I'm like, whoa. Yeah, that's right. That's exactly what I needed.

Sushil: Yeah. And if you went to Vipassana I think the person that, by the way, for those who don't know is a 10 day meditation retreat, and I know the word retreat sounds like it will be a very pleasurable trip, but again, it's very intense and. It's something that gives you a great insight. So if you want to check it out, you can go to tama.org and it's free of cost for new students and run primarily by donations from all students.

 So that concludes the ad for Vipassana coming back to the first night I think Goenka says that, doing this work is like doing brain surgery And the thing that psychedelics is you actually see visions of brain surgery happening sometimes can be really intense.

Takamichi: Yeah. It's like brain surgery without the anesthesia.

Sushil: Yeah.

And it's if you tell the average person what you saw, they'll think that you're tripping balls, but I would definitely say that I experienced, like there were some other worldly surgeons and doctors who are operating on me during some of the visions that I experienced. What was your most significant journey like with magic mushrooms?

Takamichi: Oh my God. We have three sessions three doses with one day apart from each other and. I think I saw in the first session I had sex with a world. And then in the second dose I died, I think I, it was like an ego death that I experienced. Like I just died and came back to earth, feeling.

and then the third session I was speaking to the universe or God, or whatever is the source of all this, all that.

Sushil: Wow. So let's elaborate on each of them I really find that very interesting. What do you mean when you said I had sex with the world?

Takamichi: It's just I was I think my inner femininity came out I'm like, I identify as he him and I'm I did fight as a male and also SIS gender.

Heterosexual, but so the inner femininity came out and I called her the inner whore because she wanted to have sex with everyone and make everyone feel good. And I was like, wow this feminine part of me that just came out and blossomed and it's, it just, it's so intense.

No wonder I would I used to. Press it and like just shove her away because it's so intense, like so much, like it's like why do you want to sleep with everyone? What are you talking about? That was somehow liberating for me in terms of just knowing like different parts of myself.

So I didn't know I had that in me.

Sushil: That's interesting. Yep. I understand how you categorized it in that way, because , as a society, there's a lot of shame around. Sex and sexuality in general. And when you said Hey, what are you doing? Stop doing this or something. It feels like maybe that repression is not even coming from you.

It's like a program that's been given to you.

Takamichi: Yeah, it's, I'm in the modality that I work with. I'm also a therapist, a trainee to be a therapist I'm finishing up very soon, but it's called process work in process work. We have this concept, I think other branches or schools of thought have this too, but internalized oppression So it's imposed by society about it.

You also internalize that those values homophobia is a big thing in Japan, for example they're, they've been working on it, but slow it's been slow. And definitely I have internalized homophobia that I worked on. I'm still working on it. But, yeah so it was also significant in that way oh, this thing coming out programmed by society, as you said, social, and also it's also internalized it's in, in me this, oh, you shouldn't be, you shouldn't be a woman.

Shouldn't be a sissy in quotes. Like those very those words are there.

Sushil: I understand that. And the problem is we are not able to have conversations about any of this.

Because there's a fear that any time we will open up about this or be vulnerable that we do have these internal biases. And we're working on them. There's this fear that will get shut down. Be labeled as evil. Or canceled. And we start repressing these parts of us. And they come out in weird ways.

And oftentimes when we cost a finger on someone else, Or we say that someone else is wrong to have these thoughts. I think. It's a part of our own shadow. That we have rejected. That we are able to like tune in to another people. Like i grew up in the nineties in india

and we always had this perception that being gay or being a feminine. Is something to be ashamed of or. It's not normal. And for a long time. This belief was very strongly present in me as well. But then with time, I was able to educate myself. And understand that perspective or.

If I had thoughts based on some unconscious biases.

I feel like I stopped fighting with them. I stopped. Repressing them. I just realized that this is some baggage. Which is not the authentic me. And I don't have to identify with this line of thinking.

I think education. And. Living in a very diverse part of the world or moving to a very diverse part of the world, like the U S. We're two very crucial.

Facets of self-development. That's when I realized that there's nothing wrong in being different. And that everyone is unique in their own way.

Takamichi: It's hard work though. Yeah. Yeah. I had to work really hard, but I'm still working on it. I think this was a tangent, a little bit of a tangent, but like I remember in middle school I had a crush on a boy and I like totally repressed.

I'm like, oh my gosh, you're so abnormal. You shouldn't be. Having all these feelings for this boy. And I remember that after I had that first dose of psilocybin at the retreat and I'm like, wow. So maybe like I have I might have BI bisexual tendencies.

And that was like a big realization for me. And I. I was feeling more peaceful with that part of myself.

Sushil: Yeah. And these ex these experience in altered states, they're great for integration because I feel like a lot of. Chunks of you start coming back or, you start seeing parts of you that you have either suppressed or experienced some great trauma and it disintegrated from you,

Now coming to your second experience, you said that you had an ego death. What was that like? 'cause I feel like I experienced something very similar when I tried Ayahuasca. As well.

Takamichi: Oh, my God. I would love to hear more about that from you too. One thing I remembered is that Jung said something that I, that really resonates with me, which is that I'd rather be whole then. So be just knowing all parts of ourselves instead of just being good because we have, as you said, shadows, so why wouldn't we want to, I want to know all the parts of myself and that was a really integral part of, my journey to, to start to know all parts of myself. So that's what I was something I wanted to throw in and ego death. I remember thinking Like also, so at the retreat we had eye shades and ear plugs even.

I don't think I put ear plugs in. So he, so you can go more internal rather than explore the environment. But I had, I shared, so it was, everything was black and dark. I remember thinking like, oh my gosh I'm dying. And I was like, thinking like, I didn't know, you could die like this.

Like not just die in say an accident with like your body disintegrates, but you can just die your spirit alone or like your mind alone or something like that. And then I was really scared. And then It was like the screen went empty or something like that, just boom.

Everything stopped. And I don't know how much time elapsed, but then I remember like coming back but just because my before the trip, my wife told me, come back alive. Like I, she was joking or something, but she, I, but I remembered her words and then I'm like, oh my gosh, I need to come back.

I can't just be dead. I have to come back. I came back from that like void or emptiness or like death, or like just non-existence for my wife, and I started crying because I missed her so much and it was like, I still had like days to, to go back to Japan to home. And like I cry my balls out.

So that was pretty cathartic. Yeah. The good thing that my wife doesn't speak English. So she doesn't. Yeah. She doesn't know. Is she? Yeah she won't hear this.

Sushil: I will be presenting transcripts to this episode in Japanese as well. I'm just joking.

Takamichi: Yes, of course. That's fine. She'll just be like, she'll just brush it off oh yeah. You're just like talking nonsense anyway. So sushi, what about you? What about your ego death experience? I'm so like, yeah, I really would like to compare notes.

Sushil: So mine was in an actual death. It was I would say. The part of me that I identify as me died. So that's like Sushil or, I was not Sushil anymore.

I had an experience where we had this fourth ceremony where we are supposed to connect with nature and we do a half dose. So what happens is we do have those and then we go into nature and then I feel everything that was bothering me had just shut up.

It was like, I pulled the plug on my mind or something because there were no thoughts. There were no beliefs or, whatever programming that I have or like all the the negative chatter that happens in my head, all of it stopped. And I was just observing. I was just observing reality as it is.

And it's ironic that I had to get into an altered state to appreciate reality as it was, but. But it was an incredible experience because I felt like the movie soul where one of the souls inhabits somebody body for the first time I actually experienced that. Like the beauty. Of life itself breathing through me.

And

Takamichi: Oh, my God.

Sushil: yeah, there was like, I was just looking literally like looking at my own hand for 10 minutes and seeing, wow. This is in fact, life is a miracle. I was just like a single cell.

Takamichi: Oh that's so incredibly interesting because I had a similar experience in in my first Zen meditation retreat with this Roshi that I was referring to earlier. So I was, this was. The third day of a five day meditation retreat. I'm also going to another five day meditation retreat in two days tomorrow, actually.

But so I was sitting and all the thoughts stopped and I was just observing, as you said, the wall like in Zen meditation you, you do it with eyes, half closed. So like you, you get to see so I was just observing I'm like thinking like. Afterwards. I came, when I came out, I'm like, oh my God, that was so peaceful, like existence with our thoughts.

It's so peaceful. So yeah. Yeah. So that didn't last for too long, but when I talked to Roshi this is the privilege of having someone who's gone through the same path or the path already is yes, but who is observing? You need to, you can go deeper. I'm like, damn it. Yeah. But yeah.

Anyway, so yeah. Anyway, so once you melt you melt your identity so much so that you and existence, there's no demarkation that's when this mystical experience of Satori happens apparently. But anyway, so I had a glimpse of that and that was incredible. Yeah, it's just take away the thoughts and existence is beautiful.

Sushil: It is incredible. And in fact, that was the most significant experience from the. From the retreat was that I found a way to appreciate reality as it is. I still have like days when it's rough, it's it sucks to get out of bed and, I hope for an everyday miracle, as you said but still, there's something there's some small, tiny shift in consciousness that had happened.

something very tiny. It's not like I'm healed and now I can sit under a tree and teach people or something like that. I'm just saying that life has some slightly better, even if it's 10% better or something, but that realization, that, that reality is so strange.

And yeah, it's very absurd sometimes.

Takamichi: Yeah. Yeah. And I went to the retreat and the psychedelic retreat about three years ago. And you have rippling effects, like did the ripples continue. and also, I felt like all my decisions that I made after the retreat were in a way guided, not like made by guided by the experiences I had in the retreat.

Yeah. It's yeah. It's to show you all see the effect, I think continuously it, yeah.

Sushil: Yeah. And one of the most significant message I had was like I'm not defined by. My trauma or my past and under in the altered state. I'm able to see it as if it's just baggage. It's just like a layer or it's like something that is not my identity.

Takamichi: Oh yeah. It's so important to, yeah. So you I think you're in Buddhist terms of your attachment to the ego, like this, victim or the trauma and the baggage, loosened,

Sushil: So much victim mindset, like why me? Like everyone has a difficult life, but sometimes I was like so attached to all the suffering and why me? Why is my life tougher? than everyone else and, it was like, I realized I had an option of letting that go.

Now let's talk about your third experience. You said that you had the experience. Of speaking with God. Can you expand on that?

Takamichi: Yes. Oh my God. It's pretty incredible. So I saw myself experienced myself floating away from human society. And standing outside of everything that has to do with human or humanity the laws, values, beliefs, all that stuff was like there about I was outside of it.

And then I felt. I was a voice was speaking through me and I was actually vocalizing like there's, there are no wars quant wars, but I was like, all right, ah, doing that, but rhythmically, I was like half singing. And right after the retreat I kept repeating the, that one phrase or one rhythmic pattern that.

I would like, vocalize and that, that was really soothing. I don't remember it anymore, but but anyway, so this voice was speaking through me and I was like vocalizing. And so like I was asking questions to this. Voice that just came to me. And it had all the answers. There would be like war in the near future.

And then, but you'll be fine with your wife. You're going to survive through it and war or something like big. Th the would be coming or something like that. That was like a prophetic

Sushil: This was before COVID.

Takamichi: This is before COVID indeed.

Sushil: You're going to be coming after you with pitchforks.

 If I didn't do warn us,

Takamichi: 'cause I didn't know. But I

was like, oh, I never got it. Yeah, I know. I should have been the prophet. Like everyone there'll be a pandemic. There'll be something going on.

and I think I asked the voice like, oh, how is Buddhism or something like that as my spiritual choice of my, my path it was like, yeah, Buddha is not too bad.

This cause this source or whatever has been there all along. So like Buddha is just a little young guy to, to this voice. And yeah, Buddha's alright and I think, yeah, I think it's it's suitable for you or. Things like that. So I was just having informal chats with them, but like initially it was like this super powerful of terrifying force.

But it was very kind to me and it was also saying things like, I, I wasn't sure it was saying things, but it communicated to me that it's always there with me, this force protecting me. So you have nothing to worry about. So that sense of like security and feeling. Peaceful and just relaxing.

That, that was definitely something that I felt like days afterwards. But yeah, I just, I didn't want the voice to go by. It was there for a long time, like hours.

Sushil: It almost sounds like you w you experienced the collective consciousness or the source

Takamichi: that. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. That was, yeah. Man. I, yeah, so that's why I wanted to go to Ayahuasca and experienced something like that too. Or they see what it is like. And so I'm jealous that you did get to go.

Sushil: It will happen. And you'll notice that Ayahuasca. It's such a strange. Plant. That she starts acting on you even before the retreat. You started noticing these patterns in your life. And start. Noticing these difficulties or challenges come up. Even before you go on the retreat.

And I was told us during the retreat and. I thought, oh wow. The last month leading up to the retreat was indeed. Very challenging. Very difficult. Very hellish. And. My experience was that it was not all pleasant.

And some of the experiences have a very blissful, but some of them were like, hell. But they were all very significant and very meaningful experiences.

Another thing that you brought up when we spoke a few days ago, was that you fast, very often. So as curious to know how has fasting. Impacted your meditative practice. Or what benefits of fasting have you noticed in your life

Takamichi: oh, wow. Yes. Thanks for asking that. Because I was just reflecting that yesterday. so I started fasting about 10 years ago, just for health reasons. Like just one day fast and then, but around 2000. 14 or 13 or 14, I decided to do multiple day fasts. And I slowly built up my stamina and fasting muscles as it were up to 10 days, I was going to go for two weeks.

That was my goal. But like after doing 10 days, I there's no point like 10 days is good enough. But these days I do seven day fast, at least once a year just to reset my body and everything, but also fasting is such cleansing. Purifying act for not only the body, but for the mind and no wonder, the monks and the aesthetics and those who are like on their spiritual journeys would fast because it is incredibly healing in a way that as paradox squads, might you, my son, like you're not eating.

Drinking water or maybe a little bit of bone broth if I feel like it, but just water basically and maybe mint tea or a herb tea. But I noticed that if I do this is more recent than, the more recent if I do a long, fast, more than three days I have these illuminations or insights realizations.

So for example, during the most recent fast I did three days it's not that long, but I, I kept working out during fasting which I don't recommend to everyone because it's, it can be really tough. But I had a realization like, these realizations just happened.

You your mind is altered slightly. And your body's also very altered because you're running on ketone and not on glucose. And brain apparently runs a lot more efficiently on ketone than with glucose. So you have your thoughts are more I guess high quality, and I had a realization like, oh I was so tired, low energy, low moods which is rare during a fast, because during a fast, like your fast is really good for our depression and moods. So you usually feel better after a certain point. There's a window of time when your body's depleting the last store of glucose.

So you feel really bad, but then like your moods shoot up once ketone or ketone. Kicks in. For me, it's like between 24 hours and 36 hours, it depends on the people. So after the 36 window, 36 hour window, I usually feel better, but I was feeling bad. I was feeling like super low energy. And I'm like, Ugh, I just don't want to do anything.

And it just clicked me. Yeah. In my mind oh, I don't really have to do anything. Like I eat, I don't really need to do anything all the time. So the realization was like it's like something that I had thought about before about not to the degree of oh just sinking gain or set up.

It didn't, it hadn't sunk into me until that point. I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. So that was, you always have to do something like, productive, be productive, et cetera. That, hustle culture, especially in the U S also in Japan, too. So I felt like a little bit free freed from that a little bit there.

Sushil: Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. We are called human beings, but we are like human doings, like you're always doing

Takamichi: Great. I love that. I love the human doings. Yeah. Like God. Yeah. Instead of knowing you were always doing something. Oh man.

Sushil: Yep. I want to try it. I would probably try a fast in the coming weeks and see, I think I'm at that point where I'm not done fasting at all in my life. And I'm like, even if a little bit of discomfort happens, like my head gets light-headed or something like that, I start feeling like, oh no, what am I doing?

Am I going to faint? I'm going to die. That's like the survivalist mentality kicks in, but

it's just very strange.

Takamichi: Yeah. It's ironic that fasting is so unnatural for us to do willingly, but it was so natural back in the day when the food, when food was scarce. So people had to do fasting, right?

So your body's used to fasting, but we were like doing it on our own well, It's like why are you doing that? That's stupid.

Sushil: Yeah. I definitely want to see it. I'm always like curious about like how I can expand my. My mindfulness practice or, how I can go deeper into into the self exploration. And that's why I started this podcast as well. It's called heal with Sushil, lose I'm in the process of healing as well.

And that I like having conversations with people who do a wide variety of things to explore their consciousness and themselves.

Taka, before we go let me ask you because your podcast is teamed around like everyday miracles. What would be one everyday miracle that people can incorporate in their lives?

Takamichi: That's a great question. Let me think about that. Yeah. One thing that you I remember you mentioning like a stiff neck stiff shoulders. And I know a lot of people have that. Especially when you people are like looking at screens all the time because your eyes are really connected with your neck and shoulders.

So one thing I recommend is to have a towel Like a, I don't know, a hand towel is good. Good enough. When it squeeze the water out and pop it into a microwave for 30 seconds and it's it's so it becomes piping hot and take it out, lie down and put that towel over your eyes, close your eyes, and Feel the towels temperature change until it cools it until it cools it, it'll probably take around like 10, 15 minutes and that's going to make a lot of difference.

Are you going to feel a lot better? And if you do it like every day, it'll probably reduce your neck and shoulder pain.

 I do spiritual massage and then this is something that I learned as well.

Sushil: I'm going to try that. Thank you so much for sharing that. And it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on this podcast. And if you want to check out taco's work, you can follow him on Twitter @takaokubo.

Did I butcher that

Takamichi: He said, no, you had it right? Yeah. You got it. You

Sushil: Okay, cool. Yeah, it's a takaokubo and yeah, I can't wait to check out what your podcast is like, and I wish you the very best in your creative journey.

Takamichi: Yeah. Thank you. So shell, it was pleasure talking to you.

Takamichi OkuboProfile Photo

Takamichi Okubo

Therapist / Zen meditator / Fiction Writer / Solopreneur

Takamichi just quit his cushy job in Tokyo & has been exploring ways to make a living as a self-employed solopreneur. For the last five years, he's been on a spiritual journey as well, attending meditation retreats, a psilocybin-assisted retreat, a Native American sweat lodge ceremony, Japanese shammanic dances, Chinese martial art, therapy, and now finishing up his training as a therapist.