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May 16, 2022

07 Examining Porn Addiction to Better Understand Ourselves | Dimitri Douchin

07 Examining Porn Addiction to Better Understand Ourselves | Dimitri Douchin

Summary

Everyone wants to be seen and everyone wants to be understood. What seems like a basic need can be extremely hard to come by.

My guest this week is Dimitri Douchin. He’s a Porn Addiction therapist, an actor, and a stand-up comedian. He is currently building a community to help people overcome porn addiction.

In this episode, we talk about the dangers of porn addiction, perception of pornography, shame and the inclination towards addiction, cultural repression, and integrating the shadow.

We conclude the episode with a guided exploration of a fantasy.

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction
(02:06) Unhooked Community for Porn Addiction Recovery
(03:26) When do you know whether you have a problem?
(04:38) Dangers of porn addiction
(06:26) How perception of pornography varies depending on a relationship contract
(07:23) Shame around sexuality and the resulting inclination to porn
(14:14) Not feeling understood. How porn addictions can stem from sexualized trauma
(16:39) Sexual repression as a culture
(17:36) Working through repression and shadow work
(21:58) Addiction to the perpetual shame loop
(23:40) How can someone reconnect with their inner child?
(28:00) Guided Exploration of a fantasy

 

Memorable Quotes

“I decided to jump off the cliff and live my own life”
“Just to embrace these feelings just to be whole again, and from this place of unity and alignment, you can project yourself into a life that has meaning and purpose for you.”
“Pornography is just sexualized traumas that are being replied or reversed.”
"They say life is such a good teacher, that if you don't hear the lesson the first time, it will teach it to you again."

 

Resources

Connect With Dimitri [ LinkedIn ]
Unhooked Porn Addiction Recovery Community
Episode Show Notes
Heal with Sushil [ Website Newsletter ]
Zencastr Promo Code
I AM Creative Course and 1 month of Skillshare Free

Transcript

 

[00:00:00] Dimitri: It's mostly based on, finding the emotions within us that are causing the repression that want to be met that are causing the need for regrouping and cocooning and self-care and just meeting this inner child again and reassuring the in child comforting that inner child and allowing the page to be turned. 

So that's. Pornography again to soothe the hurt from this past trauma.  

[00:00:23] Sushil: You're listening to heal with Sushil with your host. Sushil Ganesh. Join me as I have insightful conversations each week and share techniques, that'll serve you as you venture on your hero's journey.  

I'm thrilled to announce that this episode is sponsored by Zencaster  

remote podcasting can be quite challenging when you have guests from all over the world. And that's why I love Zencastr because they're made podcasting. So hassle-free, I can easily share recording links with my guests and the experience is so seemless. 

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so, if you want to kickstart your podcasting journey then I would highly recommend going with Zen Costa. And if you follow this link, you will get 30% off the first three months go to zen.ai/healwithsushil  

 My next guest is a really good friend of mine. I've had the pleasure of working with him in the past. He is a porn addiction, recovery coach, and he's also an actor and a budding standup comedian. I'm really thrilled to welcome my good friend, Dimitri Duchamp.  

[00:01:54] Dimitri: Hello? Sushil  

[00:01:54] Sushil: Hey Dimitri. How are you doing? 

[00:01:56] Dimitri: I'm good. Thank you. How are you?  

[00:01:58] Sushil: Good long time. No. See. 

[00:02:00] Dimitri: It has been awhile. It's probably been a year or more.  

  

[00:02:06] Sushil: You're doing great work right now. I see that you now have a community for helping people overcome pornographic addiction. yeah. Tell me a bit about a community that you have right now. 

[00:02:17] Dimitri: Yes. So I've been working in pornography addiction, recovery. The past four or five years or so, but it'd been a coach and a counselor for the past eight years. And currently we've got a Facebook group of about a thousand man who are working hard on their recovery. And I have just launched a new platform called unhooked, which is the. 

First online treatment and community for pornography addiction. So I have really big ambitions for an hooked and it's the fruits of three or four years of research on how to best approach this issue, which is really taboo and pretty difficult to to deal with. And I'm really proud of what I've created with my co-founder Benwah. 

Let's see how this unfolds, but it's really exciting.  

[00:03:03] Sushil: Congratulations. I think pornography addiction is one of those addictions. Kind of Is swept under the carpet, as you said it's, it's taboo and people don't talk about it. And maybe there's a perception that it's, brushed off saying that, oh, I don't have a problem. It's just something I do. 

 What do you think about that? And what are actually the disadvantages of being entrenched in pornographic addiction for many years? 

[00:03:26] Dimitri: Yes. So oftentimes when I share that their work in this line of work, the first question I get is, oh, how do you know when you're addicted? There is no definition into DSM. there's no definition on what is actually sex addiction to pornography. Addiction is not acknowledged as an addiction, which I found is really sad and shocking. 

But so basically what I go with as, for many addictions is any behavior that you keep engaging in. But that you know, is detrimental to your life is signs of an addiction or a compulsion. And it can be for the chemical addictions that we know cannabis or other drugs. It could be for certain behaviors like gambling and it can be for sex and for pornography because because the, for the sex addiction to pornography addiction, the reaction is within our own brain, it's not conceived as an external stimulus. 

And so it's that considered as an addiction, but obviously the content. Stimuli in pornography are really intense and create this dopamine explosion in our brains that treat the addiction. So I think it should definitely be acknowledged. And in the long run consumption of pornography will lead to. 

Certain tolerance.  

So you get used to the content that you're watching. You need more and more of a dopamine explosion in your mind. So you're pushing yourself towards either longer durations of watching pornography or more extreme content and more specialized content as well, which certainly was the case for me. 

And then it leads to certain things like Eric tell dysfunctions. Your brain is learning that real sex is what's happening on the screen because that's what you're doing more often. And then you lose track of what real six feels like. And when you're coming to real sex, real sex feels pretty blended because you don't have oldest choice. 

You don't have all this super stimuli. You don't have all this engineering that is present in pornography. So I guess ed is one of the main issues, but he creates a lot of distress in relationships as well, and all sorts of complications within relationships and within the individual as well, whether there's a dependence.  

[00:05:28] Sushil: Yeah, for sure. When we work a couple of years ago, I think I was a hotbed for addiction and, porn addiction was the last thing on my mind at the time because I was recovering from addiction. So many other types of like substance addictions, like smoking cigarettes and all of that. 

And this really fell under the radar. And I felt like then really examining my previous relationship and to some degree, the. Disconnect between my partner and I I wasn't maybe the typical subject who would be watching it for 15, 16 hours a day, but still the fact that, the fact that the understanding between us was like, it was perceived as cheating. 

Um, and yeah, and at the time I was like, what's the deal with that? It's just this dumb thing that I do. But then when you assess how you give your energy to this and you are indulging in a behavior that does seem like infidelity on someone's. 

[00:06:24] Dimitri: That's right. And it's not, it will vary, you know, in every relationship. So people will watch pornography together, inside a relationship with some people that's a big no, it's not so much. Try to do within the relationship, but it's more than that. It's a bridge in the contract. It's are the contractors that, that it's okay or not okay. 

Or whatever it's happening in the relationship, but still some pods, if you wants to engage with pornography and you have to breach that contract and that's where the damage is being created. And that's why you're engaging in the behavior. Even if you know that it's detrimental to your life and that's a sign of addiction or contradiction.  

[00:06:57] Sushil: I think from a relational perspective I, the problem arises when you can't really be vulnerable with your partner about what you want or, what I expect patients from sexuality. Things you want to explore in the bedroom. And then when that expectation, there's a gap between that you turn to pornography or you're trying to get that somewhere else. 

Could you expand a little bit more on that? 

[00:07:20] Dimitri: Yeah. 

absolutely.  

There's for a lot of men there's a belief that what they're into sexually is not okay. And they have sets and desires that they've repressed and that they cannot express to their partners. And so then. They close up the, that part of themselves in the relationship in that part of themselves has to express elsewhere, which is in pornography, in their own realms of sexual fantasies and masturbation and things like that. 

 These fantasies could come from anywhere very much from the psychoanalytic goal standpoint, where I believe that sexual fantasies come from passenger traumas and sexual wounds in our lives And also happy sexual moments. But we basically replay sexually our traumas in a sexual way, and that's why we are ashamed of them. 

And that's why we repress them and we believe they're inadequate. When we come to peace with the the fantasies that we have and the things we want to explore sexually, however quirky that can be provided that they're consensual. So you have agreements with your partner provided they're legal, so it's okay in your country to engage in whatever you're engaging in and provided that they're possible Because having sex with aliens is not yet possible. Then everything is okay and everything is okay. But it there's a lot of shame for sure. And some of these medicines can come from pastoral Alma. It can also come from pornography itself. I knew for by end study pornography at the age of 11 or 12 years old, which is very common. 

Now the average first age of exposure to pornography is 11 years old. And upon geography now is a little more extreme than it used to be. But it's pornography, it's exposure to extreme pornography at the time that kind of seed seated this traumatic impulses in my mind. And then the more I watched pornography in the more I reinforced as patterns and more I created tolerance. 

And the more I specialize in certain Tennessee's. And then when I came into real sex life, when I was 19 years old, 80 has lighter. There's a lot of dentists that have been done and it was really hard to reconcile sex life and pornography. I was always happy with my partners, but I knew that there was always a part of me that I couldn't express until 10 years later when to decide to, Hey, what if that part of me was okay. 

What if I could find a place where I can express the sexual fantasies? They are people outside in the world who are, expressing themselves with no shine. What if I did that? And that's when I started joining BDSM communities in Sydney and starting my journey of healing, both with therapy and exploring these fantasies or by.  

[00:09:37] Sushil: Yeah. I think we both grew up in the nineties and we were from a time when we had dial up internet. So if we watch porn back then I think the entire neighborhood would know 

exactly. I mean, I can understand, like the kids nowadays don't have these barriers to entry or, I feel like the porn industry is really out there these days with VR and the driving innovation and tech and it's, it's pretty intense. Now. It is how much and how extreme it is and the work that you do becomes even more relevant in today's world. 

[00:10:10] Dimitri: Thank you. I think so pornography is okay for a long time. I said is the first source of traffic on the internet and now Tik TOK. Apparently supersede superseded pornography, pornography is the second source of traffic on the internet. The third source is search engines, 25% of which redirects to porn sites. 

So everybody's watching pornography, but no one's talking about it. Pornography is so accessible right now. It's the three years of pornography, accessibility, affordability, and anonymity, which makes it that, Hey, you can watch any kind of pornography any time and no, one's going to say anything because it's anonymous. And that's really damaging, especially for children. There's a lot of work that needs to be done in prevention. I'm working on the healing side of things, but I think a lot of work still needs to be done in prevention also within the industry to make sure that there's ethics or standards I'm not against pornography per se. 

I think it can be a beautiful way of. If you're having a good time with your partner, you want to make a video in your kitchen or whatever, so that you'd have fun, but I'm also, there's a lot of expectation in the industry and has lots of good work that had been done in this direction by the, what are they called? 

The justice fund, I think in the U S where now MasterCard And, visa had not accepted Because there's been the videos of child sexual exploitation and a lot of boycott, they had to remove millions of videos because of this act and this activism that's being done. So there's some good activism in there. 

And of course, porn, I don't know if you can still exist. And of course it can be fun to, to consume it within reason, but when there's signs of attachments or compulsion or a D. By the time I realized there's damage, it's oftentimes very light. And this got a bit of work to backtrack, to be done, to backtrack where. 

[00:11:45] Sushil: Yeah. And I definitely agree with that. That if you feel like it's you, who is putting yourself out there, and this is all you want to explain, express yourself, then more power to you. We have a creator economy section, which is completely by. Creators of pornography and you see only fans and are creators who are not in it because of pressure or because of some external pressure. 

Maybe it's like a, if it's like a personal choice, then I don't have anything against pornography either. Just for me personally. I just feel like I would like to put my energies in different places  

[00:12:17] Dimitri: When you buy a pack of cigarettes, it says, Hey, cigarettes will do that to you when you engage with pornography more and more so now, which is good. There's a disclaimer that, Hey, you have to be 18 years old to watch this content, but it doesn't talk about the older neuro neurological damage and the cognitive damage that's being done in Poland. 

From pornography and sexuality. So there's a great site called your brain on porn.com. That explains all of that. I'm more dealing with people who suffer from addiction and they know it, but if you're not too sure, and you'd like to inform yourself about some of the damages that pornography can create a repetitive exposure to pornography can create. 

This is a great. 

[00:12:53] Sushil: On that note, when you say right, you have to be 18 years and older, when has that deterred anyone, to be honest 

[00:12:59] Dimitri: I think if you've never watched pornography before, and you're less than 18, not 17, but probably more 11 or 10 or nine then it can be a deterrence. I remember. So oftentimes we're introduced to pornography, right? We rarely on our own come to watch pornography. And w we have people who are inviting us into this world. 

And for me, it was a friend who invited us into this world and that very friend Showed me pornography for the first time, which was a really high I remember for me it was not a bad thing at all. It was a really peak experience at peak positive experience where I felt understood it took more about that, but basically that's how we felt. 

And, but then when he was seeing this warning that says, I sweat, when he says you have to be 18 and said, I didn't care, but what did he say? I swear on the honor or I swayed by honor. That was in French. Then he would not because he had some honor within him it can be a deterrent. And I think it's good. 

It certainly has to be there. Because at least it's some kind of warning and the images are blurry and things like that. If you're an 11 year old child, never seen pornography before, just go on this website by mistake, get this content flashing into you. It can be really traumatic. So even though it's not a strong deterrent, I think it definitely needs to be there. 

[00:14:08] Sushil: No, it 

Definitely needs to be. You're right. It definitely needs to be in place. you're right.  

As you said, what really stuck out there was, I felt understood. And I think the root cause of a lot of addiction is that people are not feeling understood. There are these facets of them or their personality that they need to stuff under the covers or, really repressed. 

And I think. Porn seems like a safe space for a lot of these people to you know, really express themselves in that way. 

[00:14:38] Dimitri: That's right. So many things that come to mind when you say that. So of course there's. Predispositions to addictions like yourself and myself, I believe, we're impulsive. We have some about our trauma into our lives and we we have maybe genetic predispositions as well. It runs in the family of this on my end or to federally for sure. 

So these exists that's right. So there are predispositions. And then when we consume this content, And recalls upon passwords in past traumas that are sexualized for a long time. I wondered like why is it? And this is another trivial observation that I'm making. And I can explain how it got to that. 

But for then I came to realize that, Hey, pornography is just sexual sexualized traumas that are being replied or recessed. And For a long time. I wondered why is it that all that trauma is repress re-express themselves in the sexual route. And then I came to understand that when you're a child, all your needs are made by your parents at the beginning of the. 

You can fulfill your needs, but the only need that you can not really fulfill on your own is sex. And even though you can have sex with yourself and self pleasure it's not the same as the human bonding connection or the power plays that are involved in pornography that you may want to replay. And so that's something that you don't grow out of. 

That's the building of sex and sexuality based on power and Yeah. 

I think that's why all the repression we carry accessing pornography in a sexualized way. And of course there's older. There's also an act of self care for a lot of men in particular, what you pornography is an act of self care. 

That's had a long day. They just want to check. And why something that is a little bit relaxing and entertaining and they go to pornography as if you were watching Netflix, but it just a bit more engaging. And it's just a way to do find themselves again. And just a way to create this little Kokoon me-time where they feel understood where this repressed part of themselves can express themselves. 

That's a big part of it.  

[00:16:31] Sushil: Yeah, that's a team in many addictions, is that at the end of the day, it's a place to unwind a place to feel safe  

I think maybe we should discuss repression because I'm from India. And we are touted as a land of the Kama Sutra, but we're all very ashamed of sex. when this episode airs, I'm not sure how many relatives I'll share it with. 

 It's like a taboo subject. We have a billion people, but none of us had sex to produce that many people is how it is. And I believe. when we repressed so much that's why pornography is so rampant and ironically in India, pornography is banned as well. 

And there's a ban on pornography and it was even more repression. And then you've been, people don't have like ways to express themselves. Uh, So repressed it really I don't know, it becomes really difficult to navigate life because I feel like these teams keep coming up and we act out in different ways, rage and other violent behaviors, or, can come out if you're like so deeply repressed. 

How much of your work is shedding light on these repressed parts or. 

[00:17:35] Dimitri: Yes, absolutely. And before we get to that, it's so interesting that you were mentioning the cultural differences in how sex is approached all around the world and how pornography is approached to all around the world. I didn't even know that India was pornography was illegal. I lucked out in India. 

And yes, ultimately you need some kind of underground place where you can explode repression in a safe way. Whether it's acting it out or whether it's just going through an elicit, the analysis it's like analysis or the analysis of these fantasies. So you can connect to these parts of yourself and unlock the emotions that are stored in there. 

And yeah, I don't know how, for me, it was an exploration of the BDSM scene. It was rather brief, but it was really meaningful. I don't know how much of a BDSM, an active BDSM scene or an underground sexual scene there is in India, but it'd be really interesting to hear your 

on that.  

[00:18:23] Sushil: If you tell people that you're interested in BDSM, they'll say that it's a little late for an advanced degree.  

[00:18:28] Dimitri: It's a diploma in bureaucracy and a democracy and socialism. And there were talk Chrissy.  

[00:18:41] Sushil: I'm not sure. Maybe I'm very prude because I I'm just assuming I'm pretty sure there is like an underground BDSM scene in India, but I'm. Very far, this is a very foreign concept to me. And in terms of, I only know, it exists or, there's a community of people who explore such such themes in their sexuality, but I'm not sure about how it is in India. 

[00:19:03] Dimitri: That's right. And of themselves, even also not sure how to join these communities. For me, it was with FitLife the website, which is like the Facebook of BDSM. And it was really helpful to build links into swept progressively, but sometimes we just don't know where to start. to your point about repression and sexuality and trauma is so when I was addicted and I had already met my current fiance, that was probably, I met her eight years ago and I was probably three years within the relationship. 

I had stopped watching pornography and I watched pornography again and within my relationship, which I know and knew it was a breach of the contract. And I was like, wow, I'm so in love. And she's perfect for me. Why am I watching. And I sat down there and I was like, why is everybody on earth watching pornography? 

And nobody's talking about it. And I really just sat with that and I really wanted to work this out. And I'm like, there's something big in there that we're not talking about. And I started mapping the content. I was watching into a spreadsheet and I was like, who are the characters while though to doing what are the themes, et cetera. 

And then I came to realize that, oh, there's all the ways, the same kind of power supply that is being applied in the videos that I'm watching and then the content that I'm watching. And then I'm like, wow, okay. Pornography's about the power supply. And I'm like, oh, okay. These power plays is actually a story where the repressed part of me's press part of me. 

I winning it's a story where the victim and doesn't know you is actually. They emotional victim and the scenarios is winning. And that's how I came to realize that pornography is just the biggest repositories of sexual expression of sexual fantasies, but it's also the biggest repositories of repressed emotions and repress trolls. 

And as we go through a life as a child, we go through traumatic events or some kind of toxic pattern or attachment issues and things like that will create coping mechanisms that are not really suited. And that will create a lot of repression and we're going to reinforce this patterns. 

And so there is a part of us that's going to be left behind which I called the shadow. I don't call it. The shadow in psychoanalysis is referred to as the shadow. And then as we grow as adults, if we don't revisit this path, boxes of pastoral has that happened or, inefficient, coping mechanism and things like that, they go to Paris, it's a life. 

And we find ourselves falling into the same patterns again and again, until, they say life is such a good teacher, that if you don't hear the lesson the first time, they will teach it to you again. We keep falling into the same traps until we were ready to have a serious investigation about the selves. 

But it's basically what. Doing it unhooked and a lot in my method of recovery, it's not based on discipline at all. It's mostly based on, on finding the emotions within us that are causing the repression that want to be met that are causing the need for regrouping and cocooning and self-care and just meeting this inner child again and reassuring the in child comforting that inner child and allowing the page to be turned. 

So that's. Pornography again to soothe the hurt from this past trauma.  

[00:21:58] Sushil: That is amazing because that's the theme of the podcast as well, in terms of focusing on ways to integrate all parts of ourselves and. I think shame plays a huge role because I noticed that there's a team in addiction where you tend to get addicted to addiction, you know, or addicted to that feeling of shame. 

And it's a sick kind of addiction. Like you indulge in a certain behavior. And then the part of you that feeds off or there's like that, that feeling bad later, that is also like a very addictive. Place to be in terms of, it's hard to explain,  

[00:22:33] Dimitri: absolutely.  

[00:22:33] Sushil: or addicted to like being like unworthy or something. 

[00:22:37] Dimitri: And in addiction that the guilt part of things is equally important as the pleasure of seeking part of things. It's this permanent circle of of guilt and pleasure and pleasure seeking and feeling guilty for it. I had a client who's severely compulsively. a dictated and he'd watch pornography and they need to feel guilt after that. 

And So to compensate the guilt and the hurt what, who do you do to soothe that hurt He would watch pornography cause that's his go-to mechanism. And that would lead to, sometime they spend a whole day in front of pornography. So to get, if you live through it, the guilt you're letting go of 50% of the. 

hurt So, If you are addicted to pornography, just watch pornography and feel good about it. And you don't feel good that you've cared for yourself in some way, that is not ideal, but you've done something and just go up the gifts. And I had a client who did that and I said you don't want you to have permission to watch pornography for the whole week, for the whole month. 

And it was such a game changer for him to say why I didn't watch pornography for the whole week. Cause I just didn't fear the guilt. And I just, I knew it was there. I knew I could go to it, but I didn't feel the need. So guilt is 50 of it  

[00:23:39] Sushil: Let's say if someone is in this predicament where they're disconnected from the repressed parts of them, they want to reconnect with their inner child. Then where would they start? Exactly?  

[00:23:48] Dimitri: So, Something that I haven't mentioned so far is that these repressed emotions are unconscious. So it's very difficult to just think intellectually, oh, what are these repressed emotions? And then connect to them when it comes to us in our day to day, when we get triggered by some conversations, with, as a power play, that's at stake when we have dreams and things like. 

There's a few things. That you can use there's this reading the book and then there's writing the book or rewriting the book. So reading the book, anything that's connecting to the unconscious is good. So meditation is really good for that. Any artistic activity will be good for that. 

I had a French teacher a few years ago who said art is just an unconscious mind talking to another unconscious mind. And I thought it was just a super easy and efficient definition of art. So all these processes that, that connect you to the unconscious minds are really good journeying, Chamonix journey, these sorts of things, then the rewriting involves more of a therapy sort of space. 

Also, of course, there's also the role-play aspect of things where you engage in sexual role plays that are soothing. And that's, if you're feeling repressed, anger, for example, then you allowed us to lash out into these consensual spaces. It can be anger. It can be the opposite if you want to be a submissive because there's someone who's very I heard the story in this BDSM party of this lady was saying I'm in control all the time during my day with my kids. 

When I'm at work. Leadership positions, et cetera, when I'm engaging in sex, I just want the opposite. I just want to be tied up. I can't do anything and people have to care for me. So it's typically people will have sexual tendencies that are the opposite of their social personality. And so that's for D the expression of sex. 

But when it comes to rewriting the story, it really calls upon trauma recovery, or what I call reprocessing, which you can find it in techniques such as EMDR or the one that I use, which is. Which is basically coming to meet that child in the, in a really relaxed state, coming to meet the child and see what  

the child has to And you just meet that child at a deep unconscious level. And I received a lot of these treatment myself in these therapy myself. And the first time a therapist said, okay we're going to meet this. 

Don't get Dimitri, just create an image of you. Don't get to be true here. What's happening to him. And I just collapsed in tears, 15, 15 minutes. Cause I had lost touch with the child in me. And I was like fascinated to be reconnecting with that person that I was as a child and all the qualities that I had into innocence. 

And I know this. And I just cried for 15 minutes. That was them. That was not for session, but there was a few more things, but yeah and then without going into too much detail of how. What happens in that spice because it's not really relevant, but as you come out of that spice, this is generally a big emotional release that happens crying or shouting, or just meeting his emotions that want to speak out. 

And so at least the tea is loose to shouts, but it's to whatever it needs to be done or said, and then that's it. That part is integrated again. And then you find peace within yourself and you can go. Through your day. Generally, people have very relaxed after that and very happy. And yeah, and then however many traumas and emotions you've had in your life and have any pots of elf behind you can do as many sessions is that to fund yourself. 

But typically between three to five sessions already will clear most of what I call the core wound, which is, the top 10  

[00:27:07] Sushil: Got it. 

[00:27:07] Dimitri: emotional wounds have good.  

[00:27:10] Sushil: Would you be able to guide us through like a mini session of how to reconnect with the. Right now if he had five minutes or so. 

[00:27:17] Dimitri: I could, but I want to share that if we go down and you touch on the emotion, but it's not resolved, these emotions may resurface and he may just be painful for the rest of the.  

[00:27:30] Sushil: Okay. So maybe journaling or something like that would help after the. 

[00:27:33] Dimitri: Generally after that could help, but so the gentlemen would be one of these methods to read as well. So one of these messages to understand what's happening within us, but once we found where the heart that hurts. I don't know any other technique then reprocessing to heal that, which is quite unfortunate because it requires the intervention or not the. 

person. 

And I wish there were something that we could do on our own to heal from it. But at this stage, I don't know the other techniques.  

What we can do is an exploration of a sexual fantasy and see how we feel in that fantasy and what it's pointing to, that can be done in five minutes. And it's not going to resurface too many crazy things.  

[00:28:11] Sushil: Okay. I am willing to be a test subject  

[00:28:13] Dimitri: of course.  

[00:28:14] Sushil: for the lack of for the lack of people,  

uh, For science.  

[00:28:21] Dimitri: Yeah, should we do that now? 

[00:28:24] Sushil: Sure.  

[00:28:25] Dimitri: Okay. All right. I don't really know yet what shade this is going to take. That is going to take a shape for Sure. 

All right. So I'm going to invite you to relax and to sit comfortably wherever you're sitting and we're going to close our eyes. And to collect to a deep, relaxed state within us, where you're going to take three big breaths together, starting now, letting go after these events, allowing what is presence to resurface to us today in full trust that this is contributing to our healing and the healing of all the parts of ourselves. 

And in this relaxed state of mind and state of hearts, we're going to bring our attention onto the parts of the body that feel relaxed and open and inviting. And I would like to invite you to connect to a sexual fantasy. That you really enjoy maybe something you've come across recently or maybe just your good old favorites. 

It can be about pornography or pornography. Movie can be just a good sexual encounter you have with someone or just some made up story that is purely a sexual fantasy, either way. It doesn't matter. And I, once we invite you to bring yourself to a point that is pretty close to. The paroxysms of the fantasy to the peak point, most sexual fantasies, there is a peak point where generally is where we're close to the community orgasm. 

I'd like to invite you to come closer to the moment and pretty violently. You're going to be separated from that object of sex, with a glass, with a window that's transparent, but that's potential. And you can only see through it, but you cannot walk through it. There's some kind of impediments that is preventing you from this fantasy to be fulfilled. 

And I want to ask you as this separation is happening, how are you feeling within yourself? It can be physical. It can be emotional. It can be mental. 

What's coming  

[00:31:01] Sushil: experiencing something weird. So M experiencing something as if the person was involved in the fantasy, who's at the other end of the They're also experiencing a sense of loss that I am experiencing from being distracted. 

[00:31:18] Dimitri: Beautiful. Of course. And then I want to ask you, how is the spectacle of contemplating their loss, making you feel. You don't have to answer, but I'm just bringing this back up and yeah. The partners might have a reaction as well. How do you feel watching that reaction? How does that make you feel? 

Maybe they're distressed. Maybe they're relieved. Maybe they're sad. Maybe they're anchored watching people in their emotions. How does that make you feel?  

[00:31:48] Sushil: It feels like both of us are like at this loss, as if we're meeting in a prison behind like the glass wall, And want to be with each other, but we can't, that's the kind of emotion that I'm seeing here. 

[00:32:03] Dimitri: That's right. And the separation and this loss. What's the emotion that's coming up from that. Is it sadness? Is it breathing? Is it hangar?  

[00:32:11] Sushil: It is emptiness and sadness. 

[00:32:16] Dimitri: Now welcome to that. Welcome to emptiness and welcome to sadness. 

Okay. And so maybe here we understand that the role of the sexual fantasy is to fulfill a sense of emptiness and a sense of sadness that there is within you. And that's a powerful piece of information. And so now that we've gathered this information, we can stay in this feeling for as long as we want, but it's probably hurtful and it doesn't need to be sustained more than the information that wants to be passed by the emotion. 

So going back into that fantasy right behind you, there is this big red ax that you can find. And you're going to, whenever you feel ready here, you're going to grab that ax. And you're going to Shasta that window that is separating you from  

that drip type of desire is very violent. 

It's a sudden, it's a sudden thing. 

Everything is volunteered as did the glass window as the of the glass can be anything else. If you'd like to prefer to walk through the glass while it's still unbroken, it is also okay. Whatever is more comfortable. And now you're allowed to reconnect to your partner or not so much you're allowed, but enabled to reconnect with your partner or your partners and allow for the natural continuation of the scene. I want to ask you, how does that make You feel to be able to reconnect with your partner in this way? And that the act can be fulfilled. 

[00:33:54] Sushil: You know, Strangely now that I'm beyond the glass, it's not even like a sexual fantasy. It feels like there's just this feeling of belonging. Wanting to belong somewhere. As we spoke about this earlier, it's like just wanting to be understood. And both of us just walked away, hand in hand  

[00:34:16] Dimitri: just feeling seen and ceiling understood by, she gives her a message to us. Sometimes it is just that.  

Absolutely.  

[00:34:26] Sushil: Sure.  

[00:34:27] Dimitri: And we learned that. And it's a very good point. That pornography is not about sex pornography. She, our stories, although she is a big repository of stories of repressed emotions and wounded children who have. 

Feeling whole again. And we can see that in that sexual fantasy there for you, it's a feeling of being home it's belonging and for a lot of people, that's what pornography is about. Is it being seen as being heard? Being understood.  

[00:34:56] Sushil: It's such a basic need and sometimes it's all easily unmet, just wanting to be understood or it seems like it should be pretty simple, right?  

[00:35:06] Dimitri: Of course, by someone. And that's very difficult sometimes. 

or even just being seen even without being understood. Just being seen as a child, having our needs met. Being heard when we were in distress. There's nothing west than when you go see your friend and you start pouring your hearts and sharing what's happening for you and to say, oh yes, the same happened to me yesterday. 

I was with this person and then to take over, and it's their pain that is more important than your pain, and then you're not seeing anymore. And That's just hurtful. So, Yes, it is about meeting these emotions. Is this about meeting the self? And I just want to say, of course, as someone who's recovered from this addiction, I have so much empathy for everybody who's suffering from the. 

And it's not so much that I'm criticizing the pornography industry, although it's not perfect in any way. But it's more than I have empathy for the people who suffer from it. And, I wouldn't say I was, one of Euro was one of yours. I used to suffer. I used to watch countless. I was a pornography per day. 

I used to spend an entire nights watching pornography. And now that I'm feeling connected to my emotions, I feel empathy for all of you men and women, and in between who has suffered from this,  

[00:36:10] Sushil: that's a beautiful message because ironically for me this recording fell on four 20 and part addiction was one of my biggest addiction, like being addicted to pot and. You know, It's a safe space. I understand that feeling very deeply. As I said, it's not about judging addicts or it's not about judging what your addiction is, whether it's like eating too much or too much sugar or ice cream or whatever, like watching too much TV. 

This never is about that. It's about having empathy and finding tools to find that power within you, to heal from that. There is There is beauty in reality as it is, and not wanting to escape it. Yeah. It can be painful sometimes, but overall it is the human experience is very beautiful. 

Yeah. And I'm so grateful. Thank you so much that somatic session that we did or reconnecting with one of the fantasies was. Was really beautiful. And I understood myself at least like 10% or slightly better than I came into this call. So I'm grateful for that. 

[00:37:16] Dimitri: Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you for your acknowledgement.  

[00:37:19] Sushil: Before we close a Dimitri is there something you'd like to suggest to our listeners so that they can improve their lives? Just a little. 

[00:37:29] Dimitri: Yes, of course. So I I'm very passionate about personal development. And I think there's a bit of a misconstruction in how personal development is perceived in the Western world is that you know, it's about mindset and discipline and getting it up at 5:00 AM and whatever starting the book and finishing the book and all these things. 

And these are great tips, but I feel like until you haven't worked on your emotional world, Most of your behaviors are unconscious and you don't know why you're engaging in the things you do, and you don't know why, the things you engaging don't work. And the very first step is to reconnect to ourselves and it's to recover these wounds and to heal them from the inside. 

And once we've done the sweat, not only will you heal from your addictions and from the herds and other compulsive behaviors. But you will be able to start living a life of authorship and initiative. And you can literally, because your intentions and your actions will match nuts, which is not the case when you're caring and conscious wins. 

And so in the past year, since the past four years, or how many years it's been sunset from to taking this work off, integrating this parts of me, I have just, I've just accomplished so many things that I'm proud of. Not because there were standards that society imposed on me, but quite the opposite because I walked out to up the path that society had drawn for me. 

And I decided to jump off the cliff and live my own life. And it is the most liberating feeling and it is the first step to every personal development should be to do a few sessions off embracing the feelings, trauma, recovery, shadow, work, EMDR bias, Tasia, whatever you call it, reprocessing, just. 

Just to embrace these feelings just to be whole again, and from displace of unity and alignment, you can predict yourself into a life that has meaning and purpose for you.  

[00:39:18] Sushil: Everyone should go on this journey, this hero's journey and I'm looking to provide some of those tools through this podcast, so thank you for listening. A big thank you to you, Dimitri for coming on. And yeah, if you haven't. 

Done so already, you can check out Dimitri's work in his online community. It's unhooked, what's a website, 

[00:39:39] Dimitri: The website, 

is unhooked the care C a R E.  

[00:39:44] Sushil: unhooked.care, and you can also reach out to him on you're not active on any social to be honest, right?  

[00:39:51] Dimitri: I'm not super active on social, so you can contact me on Facebook or messenger or any of those otherwise shoot me an email at an hooked. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So you can look me up on LinkedIn as well.  

[00:40:02] Sushil: Got it. So I'll be linking all of this information in the show notes. And thank you so much for listening.  

We'll see you next week. Thank you. Let  

[00:40:10] Dimitri: Thank you. So she'll, it's been a pleasure and honor.

Dimitri Douchin

Polymath

Dimitri Douchin PhD identifies as a polymath. His polypath includes research in astrophysics and cultural astronomy, being the founder of Unhooked, an online platform for the treatment of pornography addiction, and acting and comedy.