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May 30, 2022

09 Knowing Your Boundaries, Knowing Your Worth, and Asking for More| Espree Devora

09 Knowing Your Boundaries, Knowing Your Worth, and Asking for More| Espree Devora

We sometimes fail to set boundaries in our lives. Not only for others but for others as well. This makes us feel depleted and often resentful towards the people in our lives.

In this week’s episode, I talk with Podcaster, Cohort Creator, and entrepreneur Espree Devora who is famous in the LA tech scene for her long-running community initiative, WeAreLATech.

In this episode, we talk about the importance of boundaries: both internal and external, Espree’s journey as a community builder, the importance of self-worth, and showing up as we are.


(01:40) Intro

(05:01) Setting boundaries: How to make space for yourself.

(09:25) Being aware of people-pleasing. Can you support someone if you are resentful?

(16:11) How did Espree build We are LATech

(20:38) Women in Tech: If she can do it, so can I

(22:40) How we give up before trying sometimes

(25:27) Knowing your worth and asking for more

(31:26) Fake influencers and the illusion of self-worth

(34:36) Showing up as you are: Your pace is the perfect pace

(37:11) One small change and closing thoughts

People Mentioned


Marc Kohlbrugge


Connect with Espree [ Twitter Website Podcast ]

WeAreLATech Website

Essentialism Book

Episode Show Notes

Heal with Sushil [ Website Newsletter ]

Zencastr Promo Code

I AM Creative Course and 1 month of Skillshare Free


[00:00:00] Espree: I want everybody to feel as empowered to just go after their dreams and sure we're going to have, whatever set of limitations we have, based on our geography and all the other categories of being a human being. 

But what are you going to do? Just not do anything or are you just going to charge life? So at least I want to give you the resources that are available to each person to be able to make the most of it that you.  

[00:00:26] Sushil: You're listening to heal with Sushil with your host. So she'll finish. Join me as I have insightful conversations each week and share techniques, that'll serve you as you venture on your hero's journey.  

I'm thrilled to announce that this episode is sponsored by Zencaster  

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so, if you want to kickstart your podcasting journey then I would highly recommend going with Zen Costa. And if you follow this link, you will get 30% off the first three months go to zen.ai/healwithsushil  

Welcome back. My guest this week is one of the main reasons this podcast is happening besides me. Of course. she's one of the gods of podcasting and she's been running this podcast called women in tech for over eight years. She's also the founder of We are LA tech, a community for people in the LA tech scene. 

Her current project is running a, podcasting cohort with over a hundred people. And I'm really glad to talk about so many things with her. Please. Welcome Espree Devorah. 

[00:02:13] Espree: Sushil I'm so excited to be on your podcast. Heal with Sushil that's how it's. Not sure she'll his Heal with Sushil. I can't tell you today is a day that I just need your healing. I don't know if all of you know that Sushil has his cat on his lap. Brought me immediate comfort of totally the healing vibes. 

I'm excited  

[00:02:38] Sushil: it's good that you took that from the cat on my lap. And didn't think that I'm Dr. Evil or something. 

[00:02:44] Espree: no, I found it so comforting. I had a. So I'm just going to jump right into it. Like in the last hour has been very intense for me. I think you know, on a lot of the other cohort members know that my mom's been sick. So I've been running this amazing cohort. That's thriving and it's very exciting being as a creator. 

And then at the same time, I'm trying to be the best daughter I can be and take care of my mom and something happened in the past hour and I just. I snapped and I felt terrible because I snapped at my mom because I'm tired, and so I was just like, what can I do? So right before being on the interview, I got my boxing gloves on and I have this one of those I don't know what they're called. 

They're like these boxing bags, but the ones that goes really back and forth they're pretty tiny. And I have one in my living room and I was just like, maybe I just didn't need to hit that a bunch. And then it will recalibrate me. And I did that. And now I'm here.  

[00:03:40] Sushil: Okay. Yeah, sure. You can be here, right? Let's it's not  

[00:03:43] Espree: no, that's on the real of what does it mean to heal? I think this is all part of it. What does it mean to be open, to be vulnerable, to transparent? I am sure that yes, I have prioritize you. I'm sure I can be here. Thank you for asking, but I think it's important that as creators we share the real of the healing or else we just walk around looking like we're all photo-shopped Instagram photo and everybody's living a perfect life and feel absolutely lonely and disconnect.  

[00:04:12] Sushil: no, that's amazing because that's the idea with this podcast as well. It's not that I have the answers or I'm this person who is healed and is sharing his insights. It's more like I'm inviting people. From different modalities of healing from different journeys and everything, sharing their experiences, I'm learning on the job and I'm sharing what has been helpful over the last three to four years of self-work. 

And you're right. maybe we should jump into a topic like boundaries I struggled with boundaries as a creator. what happens is I sign up for things that , I think that I can do. And then once I sign up for them, I feel like I have to power  

through, and I don't have very strong boundaries with myself. 

So how do you have boundaries as a creator or how do you work on those kinds of. 

[00:05:01] Espree: Yeah, I think boundaries is something I'm working on a lot this year. I'm definitely being very proactive about setting boundaries and then there's some boundaries where I'm not sure if I made the right or wrong decision. There's this great book I read. I think it's called essential list or centralism. 

the author's amazing. I wish I could remember It all because I read both of his books. I'm just like, oh, life shouldn't here. I am my camera from think of the author's name at the moment. I feel terrible. But basically he says how to say no in a variety of different rays. And I wrote them down in a notepad and I just copy and paste. 

Whichever one I think is applicable to the decision-making at hand. But even in the last hour, my mom said that she needed something, but it's like a lot of people need a lot of things. And is it as urgent as it seems? And depending on the personality type of the person you're talking to other people, everything is urgent, but is it actually urgent? 

And so I say. A, unknowingly, because I almost out of this sounds too dramatic, but out of desperation or something, I set a boundary and then I felt terrible, but then the thing got done without me. And the only reason I know that I set a boundary is because I felt I, I said a thing and then. 

Messaged my shelf or Marcy. And I said I feel terrible. I feel like I'm a terrible daughter. My mom asked for this thing, but I don't think she actually needs it, edited it up. But and she's oh no, you just set a boundary. I'm like, is that what that was like? And then 10 minutes later, the thing was done without me. 

And I'm like, oh, I guess I did set a boundary. And so I think it's really important, especially as heart driven people. That we allow ourselves space to take care of ourselves because that's pretty much what the frustration was today is I really need me time. And whatever that me time could even mean being showing up for this podcast interview right now, me time could be a variety of things, but me time is like time. I choose what to do with my time. Someone else isn't deciding what I am doing with my time. . And yeah, boundaries I've been finding. Oh, gosh, they're such truth tellers. They tell you how, like I said, how urgent something actually is, they tell you who genuinely wants to be in your life versus who was just taking as much as they could take. 

They tell you they clearly communicate your worth to others and your value monetarily and energetically. Boundaries are essential. I'm doing this thing. I'm going to purposely stay a little bit vague, but I'm speaking in event. Tomorrow. That I didn't really want to speak out, but I'm speaking at it out of FOMO, like fear of missing out. 

And I asked Marcy, can you schedule an automated message to me? Asking me if speaking at the event was worth my time and it would be sent to me like right after. Speaking up event and I want to make sure that when I'm making it a choice, that doesn't exactly feel in alignment with my boundaries and with me that I'm truly observing was that choice, the right choice. 

Let me assess, let me take that space to assess if that really was indeed worth it, and because especially like as a new boundary setter it's really tough to say. No. 

[00:08:27] Sushil: It is very tough to say no. And me being from India, I feel like the family unit is very strong  

[00:08:34] Espree: Yeah.  

[00:08:34] Sushil: very bad at boundaries, but very close. And sometimes when you set a boundary and you're used to a certain way of functioning, there is so much pushback.  

 There's a lot of pushback and people say, oh, why are you doing this? 

There's a lot of, sometimes guilt comes in and  

[00:08:51] Espree: Let me feel that 

I'm not even Indian and I feel that  

[00:08:56] Sushil: I get that. And one more thing I noticed about that was that, I'm a people  

pleaser or I have this very strong people pleasing. And if you do something just to please people, and it's not true to yourself in some way, it just, in some weird way, either your body reacts to it or you feel like you're not being authentic to yourself. 

And there's like this bleed into like everything that else that you do. 

[00:09:25] Espree: I find that saying yes to something that I in all honesty, like the thing is that sometimes it's hard to know ourselves to know what we actually want to be saying no to, and I'll give an example, but I find if I say yes to something, I want to say no to holistically that I ended up becoming resentful. 

Or it's very energetically taxing. One example of, when it becomes really confusing is I remember a friend was asking me for something and I offered to do the thing. And then another friend said, did you really want to do that thing among of course I wanted to do that thing. I want to be a supportive friend. 

I want to, I care about this person. They're like, but did you, I get that. You want to be supportive, but did you on your own. Want to do this thing. And I'm like no, I don't want to do the thing, but I want to be a support. I want to show up a it. And then they said how supportive are you really being, if you're doing a thing that is later going to cause you to have this underlying resentment toward the person or the situation, are you really being supportive? 

If you're also feeling resentful and. Like at that point in my, awareness. I just, I wasn't even, I didn't even know I was doing stuff like that, but once I discovered that I'm like, wow, it's really not being bringing it back. If I did the thing for my mom today, it was a minor thing. But if I did the thing for my mom today, because I want to show up a supportive daughter, which I do is so important to my values. I was already resentful even on the phone. I can't imagine how I would have felt driving an hour across town to do the thing when I, and then an hour back, like I would, I have really been like a support would I have even had the energy to later, take care of my mom and the way I want to take care of my mom, if I'm filled with all this tired, resentful energy, and if I'm also not taking care of myself and making sure I have my full self to give, I think just becoming really honest with ourselves of how we want to show up in the world versus what we genuinely want to say yes to, because those are two very, very different things.  

[00:11:34] Sushil: Perfectly put, and I can understand that like, you know, wanting to be a good daughter or a, for me a good son is very strongly. Part of my value system is. But I constantly get into these arguments about expectations because I feel like sometimes if there are expectations, I talk about my question always is would you rather have me doing something because it's expected of me or whether you want it from an authentic place of love, but I genuinely want to do this. 

And I feel the latter, even when no one is like held hostage by expectations is. Far more unconditional or like far more from a place of love. 

[00:12:12] Espree: do you know why the cohort is so amazing is because I so genuinely want to show up there's only two. There's only two things I'm forgetting the second thing right now. But the first one, there's only two things that caused a little energetic resentment. And I was like, oh, right away. I'm like, Nope, I'm going to cut those things right now because it's not the energy of the course. 

It's not why this is so great. One of them was when I. I people kept asking for more onboarding calls when they couldn't join the original ones that I had planned. And I S I started become angry like ear to I'm, like, I've already done eight onboarding calls, like F you, you know, like energetically, and so like, when I felt that energy, I just decided inside there's not going to be any more on important call. That's it, because that's not. And then there was something else. That happened, you know, I can't remember. It may have been like someone just assumed they could use their one membership for their entire team. 

I think it was that, and it made me feel really pissed off like taken advantage of, and I was just like, it's free. You just have to state your boundary. Like this is just for one person and they can't be used as a team. And, And then the other boundary, someone got distracted and couldn't use Devin. 

You know, My cohort is like really inexpensive and they said, can  

I, It's ridiculous.  

It's 30 bucks for anybody who wants to know. And even my editors today, we had our team called they're like esprit, why? I don't understand like how you charge. So anyway so, this person said, they weren't being active. 

And they said could I get a refund? And I was just like, first of all, it was $30. Second of all, it was actually a placeholder for you. So I paid money to like, tend to each person and that won't work. Now I did offer something because I'm such a annoyingly, caring person. I said, I'm not going to give you the refund, but what I will give you is like a 30 minute, like chat at any time this year, but which I didn't have to do that honestly, should show if I was more comfortable with my own boundaries, I would, I'm so hard to, it's even hard saying this. 

If I was comfortable with my own boundaries, I would just say. No, like we don't do ref period, but even saying that right now, it's just, I just want to love people. So I don't want people to pay for nothing and not give pay for something and not get any value, but boundaries is an ongoing learning process. 

It's just it's so I don't think it's hard for people that aren't heart driven. I think it's hard for people who are hardship and unfortunate.  

[00:14:58] Sushil: It's not only boundaries with other people. I would say that when you're so driven or when you really want to pull yourself into it, or you associate your name with something, you want it to be perfect. You stop having boundaries for yourself even  

[00:15:12] Espree: yeah,  

[00:15:13] Sushil: And that's probably why my cat is on my lap because I felt like today I was so busy with editing and doing all those  

things. I forgot to write. Play with her, told her toys around and she was sitting outside the bedroom with her little mouse toy and, and she was like, she usually brings it when she wants to play. And I felt like so bad and I realized that I need to have more boundaries for myself in this process. 

[00:15:37] Espree: I love that. Your cats on your lap. So watch, can I see her again? I know we're alive. Ah,  

[00:15:50] Sushil: Yeah. Oh, she's she looks peaceful now, but she is, she's such a handful. Oh my goodness. She'll be running on the PC and biting all the wires and all those kind of things, especially doing during an interview, it gets really  

[00:16:06] Espree: it gets a  


[00:16:06] Sushil: It's a lot,  

[00:16:07] Espree: That's so funny.  

[00:16:11] Sushil: talking about other projects, what made you start something like VR, LA tech, or where did that idea come from? 

[00:16:18] Espree: Yeah. I started where LA tech first, and then later I did the women in tech podcast and I've done a ton of podcasts in between and after. So my proudest. Experience as an entrepreneur is building the first action sports social network. So everything that defines me as a creator, as an entrepreneur, as a founder, as a leader, as a creative, as a, everything is just that action sports, social network. 

I, I built it when you know, it, wasn't the cool thing to have a startup. Nobody really understood startups. And I got to meet with some of the future, Tycoons, which is crazy. I did not know they were about to be the future tech guns, and so later in my career, when I had already gone through so many emotions, being a founder from, crying in my office, not knowing how I was going to handle it all to the triumph of raising money and but not even taking a moment to celebrate myself and all these things, I am. I understood the journey of a founder and I wanted to be a support system for all the other, people in tech out there, they were all the builders. And so we are LA TAC when it initially started was a video series of we had shot 12 episodes and it, and really the core of it was taking everything I learned about creating a social network and my sports company. 

My sports company turned into a media network. So I knew all about cameras and video production, all this stuff. And I wanted to take all that skill and apply it to celebrating LA startups because what's a startup need when they start up is they need like to a, rocket fuel to be seen, to be recognized, to get their first customers, all this stuff. 

So I wanted to use my knowledge in media in order to elevate LA startups. Unfortunately, my partner at the time Who was due to edit all the videos didn't have the same work ethic I had and totally did not show up. Devastated. And my mom said you know, he's not going to do it. And I'm just like, ah, I just, I felt so devastated. 

My integrity is everything. And so around that time, I discovered podcasting. I'd already been listening to two podcasts, but I didn't know that I was listening to podcasts. One was called podcasts and the other one was product people by Justin Jackson, who is now the co-founder transistor. And. I didn't understand pocket. 

I had an Android, so I had a G Android G to something like the slider phone. And so I didn't know anything about iPhones and apple and that whole world. I think I was still like piecing out then. I know you have, you still have a PC, but I didn't know. At that time, like podcasts were an apple thing and even so they weren't a default. 

You really had to know about the podcasting world. And so my friends showed me a podcast and he had an iPhone. So cool. Mark Goldberger, who is the founder of beta list. And he said, you should, there's this world of podcasting. I'm like podcasting audio. I can, I never have to rely on an editor again. 

I'll just learn how to like, do this audio thing. And I started my podcast. I started weirdly tech. I started interviewing people. I taught myself how to edit utilizing the production skills that I knew from my action sports company. And editing audio is extremely easier than editing editing video. 

There's just a lot less to it. And and yeah, and then within a month or so I was number one on apple, which was really exciting. And within a few months, like the startup podcast came out and then CEO came out and then all the tech influencers got interested in podcasting. And then all the mainstream media got interested in podcasting. 

And now today it's like having a podcast is the new blog.  

[00:20:16] Sushil: as people, we have this tendency to evolve, I like how that happened for a company as well. You didn't start out with a flushed out vision or like a five-year plan or ten-year plan. You just wanted to do a video series and it evolved into this podcast, which evolved into this community where people in tech hang out and do stuff together. 

And I really liked that journey.  

[00:20:38] Espree: Yeah. And the reason why I started the women in tech podcasts a couple of years after that was because I, with my sports company, I had already raised money. I had done all these things and women in tech. Community started reformed. I'm like, oh cool. Like people like me and I would go and I'd hear all these things about it's not possible to raise money. 

It's not possible this and that. All these not possible. So I was like, my gosh, if I heard all of these things, maybe I went. Already have accomplished everything that I've accomplished. And so I wanted to create a place just to share of what's possible. So the whole theme of the women in tech podcast is if she can do it. 

So can I, and I share these amazing women's stories. I've traveled to over a hundred countries interviewing women and they just share, how. Got their first internship, like new interns, how they got their first internship to people, to women who have had their companies acquired for kazillions of dollars to like first-time CEOs to seasoned CEOs like everybody. 

And so you can listen, whether it's an engineer, a product designer, a UX designer, like a student I've had high school students on, you could listen and feel like she can do it. So can I like. I want everybody to feel as empowered to just go after their dreams and sure we're going to have, whatever set of limitations we have, based on our geography our and all the other categories of being a human being. 

But what are you going to do? Just not do anything or are you just going to charge life? So at least I want to give you the resources that are available to each person to be able to make the most of it that you.  

[00:22:14] Sushil: There is so much there, you know, like we screw ourselves up by telling us what we can and cannot do before we even do it. Or, before we even ask or before we even. Take an attempt because when I had my first podcast a few months ago, I was like, maybe I want to interview as pre okay. As a, create a podcast to have her on this podcast called the reinvention roadmap. 

[00:22:38] Espree: few months ago.  

[00:22:40] Sushil: yeah, I was doing yeah, a few months ago. I was like, maybe just like thinking of MSCI, but I didn't. I was like, oh, she has such a huge following 33,000 people. She'll never get my DM, all this extra baggage of Putting myself down and not even asking. And all of that crap about I don't have a following. 

I don't have enough people on my show to ask this person and I didn't do an ask. It is so silly. Maybe you would have said yes even months ago,  

[00:23:05] Espree: No, I did. I did a tweet that said, I don't care if you have zero listeners, I'll be on your podcast. I don't know if you saw that.  

 I actually. Not being verified for that reason is because I want to be approachable. I'm just a human, like everybody else. 

I feel something happens with the verification mark that someone turns elitist and becomes like disconnected from everyone else. And I'm just like, no, I'm like one with the people. Like I'm just a human, like everyone.  

[00:23:36] Sushil: Yeah. It's very silly, let's talk about it when there happens  

[00:23:40] Espree: Yeah. Yeah.  

[00:23:40] Sushil: if that verification check mark comes up. 

 yeah, but I understand that I think, as you said with your podcast, you spoke with someone who. 

Also with someone who has sold their company for billions of dollars. And at the end of the day, this is a conversation between people it's, as we spoke about this before, like even the podcast started is not between man and woman. It's not between Indian and American. It's not between whatever labels that we have. 

It's about two people. And when you just take out all the baggage, you can actually connect with someone and really have a fun conversation. 

[00:24:15] Espree: And not to deny. Depending on our geography and our economic status and our skin color, our everything plays a role somehow like a whole myriad of things, but like whatever, allegedly setbacks that there are. Like, does it mean we shouldn't pursue our dreams? 

That's the thing it's no, let's just find out what's possible. Let us do it all. And if we hit a roadblock, we'll deal with the roadblock when we get there. And we'll overcome that roadblock. Like it's never seen before, like with me, I would say Knowing my worth. There's this great Instagram account. 

Can I curse on this podcast? Okay. It's F you paint. So it's F Y P M or something like that. It's an amazing Instagram account. And it's all about and it's this really funny thing with we're brands. We'll say, Hey, I'll give you like a toilet roll and now create 15,000 posts for us or something like, you know what I mean? and so it just is really, and it's a great community of valuing yourself and essentially it's a lot of resources to make sure you get paid by brands as a creator.  

I think that's. Okay, this is a pretty controversial thing that I normally don't say, but I'll say right now is I'm curious of the stats of women being paid less than men. Also. How much was that contributed to women negotiating less than men and not asking for more it's not, yes. Are there systemic things going on a hundred percent? There are a lot of systemic things going on. That's been in the news. Also. We need to ask for our work, there's something about that. 

Like I saw this, so I'm studying cohorts right now, because I'm doing the cohorts I'm studying and there was this guy. I blew me away. Shield. Like $2,300 or something for his like one week cohort or whatever. I was like, I was meanwhile, I'm charging $30. And I'm like the first thing out of my mouth, man, that guy knows his worth.  

[00:26:30] Sushil: I hope you do another cohort. I know you're doing this as a one-off thing, just to have fun with it or something, but definitely would love to see more changes coming in your pricing and. 

[00:26:41] Espree: I'm terrified to charge.  

[00:26:43] Sushil: it could be a cultural thing, or it could be like some programming saying that all you should, a bird in hand is worth two in the Bush, or, at some stuff always gets in the way and we compromise on what is good for us. even as simple as. 

Oh, I'm now looking for apartments. And I'm trying to, even though I have savings, I am looking for crap places just to fit a budget. And then instead of seeing that, oh I'll get an apartment. That is what this much. And then I'll figure out a way, as you said, when that roadblock comes, I will just figure out a way to make it happen. 

It's so thinking like that, I'm like, okay, I'll compress my dream. I will. I'll adjust. I'll adjust. And it makes you so uncomfortable and you still do it because you don't know your word sometimes. 

[00:27:27] Espree: Many heart driven people feel, I feel we feel sacrificing financially is somehow protecting people, sacrificing ourself financially. It is not. But we tell ourselves this story so that we could feel better as heart driven creators. I heard 'em, I'm not going to say who to be respectful, but I heard someone say it yesterday in her thing. 

She was like, and if you can't she charges, Sushil, she charges $10 a month. It's no. At most, one of the things is like $20. But it's like TA I pay 10 bucks for whatever. And then she was like, and if you can't afford it, I'll give it to you for free scholarship. I was like, give what for free Scott you're PR this is pretty much already a scholarship. 

You know what I mean? Like as much as you're offering, like it's and then immediately she followed it up with this story. I just, I care. This is about coming. We always, we all say this. This is about community. I'm sorry. All of us community builds. I need to get over ourselves and understand that our time is valuable, that we do a lot of the Momentum and drive to make like me and about 20 other people are responsible for all the amazing ecosystem going on in Los Angeles. 

Like community builders are essential to a threat. Like I just got a tweet today, man. I wish we had that in DC, and so now, imagine if I was planted in DC and did all this work to create cultivate community in DC. Should I 

not be valued for that financially? No, that is my time, my energy, my talent, but for some reason in the heart driven community builder category us as creators all feel like we should just sacrifice our. 

You know, Being valued financially because that somehow shows that we genuinely care about the community because the other side of it, the flip side are really scummy people trying to take advantage of people. So it's just we're trying to stay so far away from those people that we're hurting ourselves. 

And we're not finding a balance. We're just going the opposite. Instead of making sure that we're healthily sustained and proudly. And honestly if we charge for community and this is me speaking to my it's like my higher self speaking to my current self is spree. If you charge for community and people don't want to be part of your community, they're not the right fit. 

Anyway, you don't want those people that just want to mooch off of you. You want people who value and value your time and just look it out as a weeding out system, yeah. Boundaries charging as a form of boundaries Yeah. 

[00:30:15] Sushil: and boundaries for yourself, boundaries, brothers, and it's very important knowing your worth what happens sometimes is that we it's like a trap in a way. If we don't know what we are worth, the no one else will either. And it's up to you. No matter how much validation you have, you might be with the perfect partner. 

You might have the perfect family. Everyone's you're the best. But ultimately inside, if you feel that there's something lacking or I don't deserve to charge this much or something, it just, you'll never be able to like, get that from. 

[00:30:48] Espree: Totally. I heard this a long time ago in relation to like romantic relationships that we treat. We teach our partners how to treat us. I think that's really true removing the romantic part, even with my mentor. He's so confident and so has such firm boundaries. Everyone values his time, values and financially doesn't have unrealistic expectations of him because he's made it very clear, like when he will or won't communicate, like it's just, he really values himself. 

And therefore everyone around him values him too.  

And that's actually how these influencers. Fake influencers. A lot of the time become very successful is they're like, I am awesome. I am great. I value me. And then everybody's oh, I guess there's some, I should be valuing you too, because you're saying that you're awesome. 

And you're Great. 

And I guess, and I know there's a difference between. Being narcissistic and pompous and all that. But look, it works. All these, Instagrammers with their, rented out rolls and rolls Royce and like all these things that people buy into as though that they're the bees knees, here. 

Okay. Here's what really frustrates me about that whole setup and ecosystem. What frustrates me is that it works. If you present to the world, that you are awesome and valuable, people will believe you're awesome and valuable. A lot of these people, thankfully not my mentor. Who's amazing, but the majority of these people are full of BS. 

And what really just drives me ethically crazy is I don't think it is right to capitalize on people's fears and insecurity. So you influencer are telling other person that if they don't have you, they're not. F you that just doesn't like, and that's what most of them do. It's if I bind to this person for their $1,997 course, or if I buy clothes from this person, I'll be like them. 

Or if I take the diet supplements from this person, I'll be skinny. Like them. Meanwhile, they're Photoshopping themselves. They're renting their roles. They're getting they're totally lonely and disconnected when they stop pressing play, like it's total BS, but people buy into it because. Buying into the image. 

And if we're not really conscious of our fears and our insecurities, and we don't have enough confidence in ourselves, we seek, that's the whole idea of capitalism. We see that we seek out a solution for that. And depending on the, how big the pain is for ourselves, that's how much we'll pay.  

[00:33:32] Sushil: what came to mind was I saw this particular post saying that there's a place in LA where you can pay like a hundred bucks or something and go and pretend that you're in a plane and take all these  

[00:33:41] Espree: Oh, I saw that. Yeah.  

[00:33:44] Sushil: And there's a market for it. It's really sad, but it's very funny. 

And I feel for these people as well, what happened to. They have this glamorous life and everything. And I, And I knew someone like that who was like, putting themselves out  

there and they were like underweight and then feel like their entire perception of reality was so different. 

I felt like it would suck to be them or, you know, like if their life is based on how they portray them.  

[00:34:12] Espree: yeah.  

[00:34:13] Sushil: Then there's like this constant expectation that you have to be perceived in a certain van and you're like flawless  

and and that sucks. And that's why I like this cohort. I feel like everyone is showing up how they can show up. 

I feel that's very important to create a, be yourself first present your authentic side first. And I grateful that I was able to do that through this. 

[00:34:36] Espree: Oh, it makes me so happy. Yeah. I keep repeating to everybody. Your pace is the perfect pace. And for some people that's not very motivating because they want like the drill Sergeant, but then at the same time Like all that matters is the longevity of what we do with our lives. And so right now I, my. 

Struggle is like I've been using food to cope. Like how do I have so many hours to work and to take care of others? It's I just keep eating sugar and food to cook, and I'm unhappy with the outcome of eating a whole bunch of wrong food, you know? putting together the pounds and packing them on. 

And so like yesterday I exercised and and then at night I ended up binge-eating again, but it's if I like lean into that, that I binge was binge eating again last night, rather than just saying, you know, what is free? My own pace is the perfect pace. Let me just continually make as many. 

Decisions in the direction that I want to go in. And like the other decisions that I don't like as much will eventually fade out because I'll build up a stamina, you know, little by little by little, because it doesn't matter about losing weight or becoming fit in two weeks. What matters is that 10 years from now, I've built up a lifestyle for myself that is now a lifestyle habit. 

I just am, have a healthy lifestyle. So when I say your pace is the perfect pace is I think we all have this. 

like perfectionist need, like I'm going to sign up for the writing course and I'm going to do writing every day. And then I'm going to become a famous writer. And at the end, if you, if we miss just one day, that whole fantasy crashes, but if we allow ourselves our self space and permission, Be human and have like a little ebb and flow, two steps forward , one step backward. That whole thing, like just allow space. Then eventually we'll have the longevity that we're looking for because we allowed ourselves the mental space to, for the good, the bad to phase out and the good to become more of a.  

[00:36:51] Sushil: Yeah I said this on another episode that we're called human beings, but there is so little being  

[00:36:58] Espree: Mm. Not human doings. Yes. That is such a good point. Yes.  

[00:37:05] Sushil: Yeah, but I asked this of all my guests before we conclude what is one small change?  

What is one small change someone could make to improve their lives in a day-to-day basis? 

[00:37:17] Espree: something that I thought of after building my first tech company, I didn't know. Believe in myself. I didn't understand how powerful I was. And I was like ridiculously powerful. I had no idea. And so I like to say no matter how old you are, no matter how much experience you have, remember that your intuition is your Oracle. 

Like your intuition is your road map. There's not some master teacher out there that is just going to like. Make everything great. I don't know Mr. Beast, maybe, but other than Mr. , who I think is a pretty hard driven person Mr. BC is a huge YouTube who does a lot of philanthropic work and he can literally get your channel from nothing to like everything. 

That's a separate story, but most people out there can't do that. Most people are preying on your fears, actually. Mr. B's doesn't even charge for. He just finds creators that he really enjoys. And he's you know what? I see a few improvements you could do on your channel right now. You're making five grand a month. 

I'm going to make it so you can make a hundred grand a month, just do these couple tweaks, and he does it for free. It's really cool. It doesn't take any percentage, no ownership. He's just like giving back. And I think that is 

that is a true, like mentor. Where they're just like giving back all the people like charging for everything and every which way, based on what your fears are. I think. Just remember your intuition is your Oracle. You have a lot more roadmap than you think just by using your gut and like really having a great relationship with your body. And like when you make a decision, if you say yes to something, do you feel energized? If you say no to something, do you feel energized? 

If you say yes to something, do you feel. Like like a constricted energy. When you say no to something, do you feel like the constricted energy and that's your indicators of what the path that you're go on and just because you're afraid F be afraid, but step into a fear and know when to step into the fear and no one, your fear is like protecting you because protecting you from true harm. 

But a lot of times, just because we're afraid. That's okay. Fear just exist to protect us. So decide if it's protecting us from harm or protecting us from our egos.  

Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Like just. So much. So just you guys are so much BS out there. There's just so much BS. Like at the end of the day, I've re I've restructured. What success means to me before success used to mean. Having my company go really big, be as big as Google or IPO and being on the cover of all the big magazines, because I wanted all the business respect and having like stacks of cash, like monopoly money. 

Now, what success means to me is it means that. 

I feel inner ease inside my body in private more often than not. If I don't feel. Joy and inner ease when no one's looking by myself. I am not doing life,  

[00:40:25] Sushil: that's amazing. That's pretty, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for coming  

[00:40:30] Espree: It's such a  

[00:40:30] Sushil: everything. That you do with your podcasting cohort and all the initiatives that you take. I wish you the very best in everything that you do. And thank you.  

[00:40:41] Espree: thank you. This has been such an honor. It's such a privilege to be on your show. Really proud of your new cover art. Like I'm so into all things you and the energy you. 

put into the.  

[00:40:53] Sushil: Thank you. And if you haven't done so already, you can find Espree Devora at SPR, her first name and last name that is Espree Devora on Twitter. And you can also check out her work, the amazing books that she's doing with her women in tech podcast and her VR, LA tech company. And until next timeI bid you farewell, or I don't know. 

I'll see you next week. 

[00:41:20] Espree: I love that.